Monday, May 03, 2010


Here's a transcript of my last exchange with john de ruiter, for those who are interested:

Jason: Hello, John. My name is Jason. We met once in London. A big part of me didn’t want to come here tonight. I think you know why. I feel like knowing you has cost me everything. But, there’s no going back, now that I do know you. So I’ve been asking myself, what do I want to ask John? Why do I want to speak to John? What does my person want here when my person knows that there’s nothing here for it. It seems like the only reason I would want to speak to you is for some sort of pain relief, even though I know that there’s not going to be any of that. So then the only other thing I can think is that I want a personal connection to you or I want to discover if there is a personal connection, if such a thing it possible, or if it matters. I had an absent father who was not present and, so there’s a big hole in my life and you were big enough to fill that hole. You have visited me in my dreams, you have taken me into your own realms, and so I feel that in a sense like I’m yours, but I know it’s not about you the person, or you the man, but a way that you embody. And I don’t know if this is leading to a question or not I’m just… Maybe I’d like if possible for you to ask a question because I feel that I trust you more than I trust myself to ask the right question, if that’s possible.

(5 minute silence)

John: You have been awakened, awakened to the profound reality within. It moves you, by your own awareness in it ~ it apprehends you. You know it’s bigger than all of the self that you’re accustomed to. More than your self, it’s more than your person and your life. You’ve been awakened to greater reality within. Once awakened to that you are also called to that. You have yet to apprehend that within that has already apprehended you. You have yet to surrender to your own deeper, real knowledge within. You see into much more than what your self is of and what your life is of. There won’t be, as you know, any rest for you until you are surrendered and completely at rest in all that within that you know the truth of. You already know that your surface existence doesn’t belong to your surface existence. It belongs to your knowing and to your seeing. This that your knowing isn’t an interesting category within yourself that you can bring into your life to add greater meaning. This that your knowing and seeing and in touch with within is what you come from. It is what you completely belong to. Everything that’s yours belongs to the same that you belong to.

Jason: I do know this. I’ve known it for a long time but knowing and understanding are not the same, and I knew it for many years but I didn’t understand it and so I tried to make it mine and I tried to make it an interesting category in my life and I tried to turn myself into The One, or the Messiah, or the Anti-Christ, pulled it down into my person and it became a great distortion, a false awakening. And now I don’t know what I’m supposed to do. It seems like I’m not supposed to do anything, but it also feels like I’m waiting for something and what I’m waiting for is, whatever words I gave it would still be completely abstract, and so whatever it is that’s most real for me is you. So then it feels like I’m waiting for you, or that I’m waiting on you, or that you’re waiting on me. I.. so again this personal, this need to make it personal. Am I waiting for something? Is there anything that I need to do?

(three minute silence)

John: This within that you’re awakened to, as you know, doesn’t come from your self. Meaning then, that your response to it isn’t going to be about your self. It’s going to be all about what you know within, this already is. It isn’t going to be about your person or your life. Your lack of understanding of what your calling within is all about doesn’t hinder your surrender to it. You don’t need further understanding for you to surrender to, belong to, enter and be this that calls you within. Understanding of what you know the truth of within doesn’t come before to be turned into it. For you to figure it out first from a distance, it will only reinforce and solidify that distance. What closes the distance within is the response in your heart to this. There is, if there is any waiting, it is the waiting of your own heart’s agreement that you know the truth of, not a mental agreement ~ a full heart agreement, a full heart surrender. Real knowledge within is all in your heart, no longer being separate from what you know the truth of with your whole heart given to real knowledge. Your own soul, with all of your heart, to be loving the implications. The implications within yourself, your person and your life, of your turning into what you know. All of your forms will be occupied with waves of change instead of being aligned to likes and dislikes. As awareness you’ll be aligned to knowing. When you’re aligned to knowing then it is meaning that you are. Being that that meaning is. With all of your forms being there to access it.

Jason: When you say forms do you mean forms of action or what exactly?

John: Form of your being, form of your self, form of your person, the form of your whole life all belonging to you. Meaning there will be no disagreement anywhere within with meaning and knowing.

Jason: When you use the word ‘knowledge’ do you mean something different from when you use the word “knowing’?

John: Knowledge is what meaning knowing has.

Jason: So when you speak of knowledge you’re speaking of self-knowledge, of my person?

John: Not of your person, not even of your self. Knowledge of that that’s deeper than both and it’s within you. As soon as what you first are moves, as soon as meaning moves you have real knowledge. You’re aware of it in your self and in your person. It doesn’t make any difference at all what you’re being. That knowledge within first is. Despite anything that you’re being in your self this knowledge within is. It doesn’t change. It isn’t subject to your self, it isn’t subject to anything that you’re being, it isn’t subject to your life, it isn’t for anything that you’ve been living for, it isn’t for anything that you’ve been living as, it simply is there within you. Your reaction to it or your separation from it doesn’t change it. This first knowledge within is incorruptible. You can cover it but you can’t alter it. It resonates clear through anything you put on top of it. This knowing is you. You are waiting for you to agree with you. The you that you’re accustomed to within your self is you as awareness- separate from that within that you first are- you separate from you. A split of awareness manifesting as a split in your heart. What you give your heart to isn’t the same as the deepest that you know the truth of in your heart. In your heart you’re holding out from you own heart, from your own deeper heart. The split continues into all of your self, within all of your person.

Jason: Thank you, John.

John: What are you going to do?

Jason: I’m going to agree with my self.

John: And that won’t be making meaningful decisions. It will be meaning making decisions. Your decisions as meaning will be uncharacteristic to what self you had. You will be that way. You’re entire self will change. The very patterning of your self won’t remain the same. You’ll be meaning that has a being. A meaning with being that has a self. A meaning-being-self in person moving through life, doing from within that that you first are. You won’t be governed anymore by emotions and will, feeling. Meaning-you, Meaning-knowing will be covering, integrating everything that you haven’t integrated yet. A massive clean, clear growing up of the innermost outwards manifesting an entire life. Being that which you are born for. Meaning the full, complete coming into you.

Jason: I see a flower opening.

John: It will petal your life instead of want and need doing so. You’ll be meeting every threshold in your self that you’ve been running away from. You’ll be healing every line within, every line of knowing that you’ve crossed. In a living way you’ll be healing yourself. You’ll be setting your self beautifully right.

Jason: I couldn’t have done it without you, John.

John: You’ll be as awareness, freeing yourself of bondage of unreason, freeing your self of the habitual misuse of reason. You’ll be freeing your self of the addiction to the misuse of reason. You’ll be setting your mind right. You’ll be thinking as reasonableness. You’ll be thinking with the sensitivity that love has. Your mind and your deep heart will be by you made to be congruent. Softness of heart with a sharp mind. Openness of heart with the will brought to one fine point, moved by meaning.

Jason: When you speak of the sharp mind I think of a sword, and I think of Christ saying that he brought the sword and not peace, and I think of how I’ve been a warrior for my whole adult life, until recently, when I felt it was time to put down my arms and surrender. Am I still a warrior?

(ten minute silence)

Jason: Thank you, John.


Rock In Pond said...

I've gotta say, that was some great advice to you from JDR. Particularly his last three paragraphs, when he seemed to suddenly apprehend more fully the nature of your particular conundrum, the tongue was almost ablaze there... And particularly his silence in response to your last question, which, in the light of all things said prior, could only have been answered with silence. All embodiments have, or ARE meaning, language of a sort, and serve certain functions. I now think that in at least some instances JDR really is looking into, or functioning as an enlivened reflection for, those who approach him. He serves a bona fide function particularly suited to those who are initially attracted to him. Awareness has been modified yet again. Also resonates well with recent apprehension of apprehension. A Moon Lily growing up around the hilt of a sword whose blade is plunged into the earth, embraced by the roots of the flower.

Jasun said...

Thank you RiP. I was having doubts about sharing all my experiences with JDR, wondering if it was for the right reasons, and if the result would be anything but an alienating of my audience, rather than the desired outcome, a bridging towards the meaning-being that John is.

This being the first response, indicates that there was a true reason for sharing.

Anonymous said...

The long silent pauses kinda make me wonder if this isn't really just an extension of your last blog on masturbation, only this is jacking off of on a "higher" level.

Don't get me wrong, JDR is speaking all kinds of's just that your wanking somehow reduces it to new age tripe.

"Slap slap slap right across your melon, PRONTO".

Or as Deter said, "your story has become tiresome".

- Harsh but honest criticism from a "fan".

Jasun said...

'honest' but not fearless, eh, "anonymous"?

Michael said...

Thanks for this one, Jason. It's an amazing process to allow your self to be truly opened by another, someone like John, who you can trust and yet sort of fear at the same time. An egoic fear because you know you won't be the same after the meeting. Almost like a "bride" on her wedding night...

John's answers to you have also helped clarify some things for me and my own journey, mostly about a sense of non-action and feelings of anticipation and waiting.


Knight of Ascension said...

I think its great that you chose to share this.

It’s refreshing to hear a person who’s well along the path confer with a higher authority. As you’ve said yourself, most of the questions people address to figures like John are hopelessly inane, and so you’ve created a relatively rare opportunity to hear how a ‘man of knowledge’ addresses someone who is already awake.

It shows a lot of integrity for you to depict yourself in the position of seeker even though so many people look to you as a source of guidance. Too many 'spiritual teachers' try concealing their uncertainty, and in the process they promote a false understanding of what it means to be 'awake.'

This is an understandable shortcoming, considering the absurd expectations people project onto potential guides; a lot of people have an all-or-nothing attitude about the authenticity of a teacher, and an insufficient grasp that there are aspects of awakening that unfold forever. So, it shows that you have a rare faith in the intelligence and discrimination of your audience.

That said, I’m curious to see how you would resolve the following considerations. The discourse of a realized master can be read in three ways; as non-sense, as a rhetorically skilled but merely doctrinal recitation, or as some kind of uniquely angled mirror that discloses something fundamental which other vantage points omit. Assuming that you would not be able to recognize which of the three the discourse of any purportedly ‘realized’ being falls into unless you were awake yourself, how do you know that you are not merely using such an individual as a sort of ‘spiritual Rorschach’ to perceive your own knowing? Maybe the question boils down to, if you can see clearly enough to tell a real teacher from a false one, what need do you have of the teacher?

Curious to hear what anybody has to say.

Jasun said...

"So, it shows that you have a rare faith in the intelligence and discrimination of your audience."

It's less faith than it is a stubbornness always to address that most discerning fragment of my "audience," regardless of how little it makes itself known to me (grumble grumble). I am aware of it being "risky," insofar as a negative response (see above) is likely to frighten that part of me that is finding new expression, through a willingness to be vulnerable.

But then my only real function as a guide or teacher is by giving others something worth matching, and there is nothing else we really need to "do," but to open and soften and be honest to the point of total exposure, total vulnerability.

I think I have answered your other question also there, no?

*Could* i do this without John? Without having someone significantly further along "the path" to orientate myself by, and to match and emulate? Perhaps, but I am happy that I don't need to!

In the end, it isn't *need* that draws us to a brighter light; it is sheer love of being that moves us.