Monday, April 11, 2011

Well, What DO You Know?!


How many times do we mistake a powerful combination of thoughts, passionate feelings, intuition, and so forth, for a knowing? In my (extensive!) experience, today’s “knowing” is tomorrow’s delusion.


To stand on my own two feet means to follow my own truth, not someone else’s. Doubt has led me to that knowing, and if I had rejected it as a hindrance and banished it as a lie, I would still be trapped in the illusion that truth can be found, or recognized, anywhere outside of my own heart.


So doubt has set me free.


Meeting John de Ruiter has been a wonderfully transformative experience, but one that was only complete when I was ready to turn away from him. This has been my coming of age. For many people in his Oasis community, turning away from John is regarded as the equivalent of turning away from truth. For me, it has been the very opposite experience.


What I got from John that I think was of unquestionable value was a letting go of the need to do anything, to prove or accomplish anything; the acceptance that nothing needs to be done, ever. From that place of knowing that nothing needs to be done, it becomes possible to determine what needs to be done. Without John, I might never have emptied my cup as quickly as I did. My mistake was trying to use him to fill it up again. The filling has to come from within.


But it seems as though John has encouraged people to “fill themselves up” with him. He is living truth, after all. . .

*


Most people around John can be defined as believers or non-believers, those who are “in,” and those who aren’t. The assumption of those who are “in,” the believers, seems to be that anyone who was in and is now out, has turned away from truth and is mistaken or deluded. I know that I dismissed all arguments against John simply by saying, “I KNOW he’s for real so that’s the end of it; all your doubts are based on NOT-knowing he’s for real and if you knew him like I did, you wouldn’t doubt him.” That was my line of reasoning, and amazingly, I never really questioned how subjective and totalitarian it was. I am embarrassed by it now.


It’s true I don’t know who or what John is at this point. What I do know is that, back when I thought I knew, I was wrong. I only believed, and I believed because I wanted to believe. Maybe I even needed to believe.


If we let ourselves be conned on a street corner by a grifter, it’s true that we have only ourselves to blame. But going to the cops and giving a description of the thief might be part of how we take responsibility for our own stupidity. That’s not just because we are pissed off and want to blame someone. Isn’t the con artist accountable too? Mightn’t we want to protect his future marks, in the spirit of community?


Good marketing always makes it look like there are “no strings attached.” De Ruiter may say that we should only trust what we know, but he also implies that he knows best, and has even stated it outright in various ways. Many people in his group perceive John as “the way, the truth, the light.” Direct knowledge is a term John uses, but as with many or most of his terms, it has never been defined or fully described. Many in his group believe they have experienced direct knowledge of truth, specifically concerning de Ruiter, and therefore have graduated from belief to knowing. I believed that too, so I know that no one can tell anyone that it isn’t so.


But not only can we not believe what we hear, we can’t believe what we see, think, or feel either. We can only believe what we know. De Ruiter has posited a “knowing” that is sourced in neither thinking nor feeling nor intuition nor bodily sensation, and in the process he has presented himself as the master of that knowing. People around him (including myself) have experiences that are so profound that they seem to go beyond thoughts and feelings (even though that’s still how we experience them), and so we assume this MUST be “a knowing.” But I have noticed how people (including myself) need to defend their “knowings,” which suggests they are not so much knowings as heartfelt convictions—which is something quite different.


Convictions make convicts. Besides basic facts (like the fact we are going to die some day), I no longer believe we can know anything except how we feel.

*


The amount of concealment I have encountered around John’s private activities, and around Oasis in general, is disturbing. There is no possible way for me to reconcile a message of truth and honesty with all of the concealment and dissembling I have encountered. A proponent of truth must be an open book. The book of John de Ruiter is not only closed, it is sealed tight with cobbler’s glue and buried somewhere deep in the forest. Then I am told there is nothing to know about a Master because “there is nothing there.”


It’s the oldest trick in the book!


Having spent the last four months researching John’s past and speaking to as many people as I could, there is no longer any room for doubt— in my heart or mind—that he is concealing aspects of his behavior, and that his teachings are not what they appear to be. The element of deception I have come across time and again is absolutely irrefutable: it is a fact. I have remained as open as possible to the idea that such deception might be somehow sanctioned by Higher Truth, but the more I tried to keep that possibility in play, the more acutely aware I became of having to practice doublethink, foregoing all logic or common sense, and abandoning what I knew to be true—just to try and make sense of what I was discovering.


My “judgment” of John based on this wasn’t that he was a bad guy. It was that he was just a guy. But when I took into account the fact that he has persuaded however many people that he IS more than just a guy, that he is in fact “the living truth,” unfortunately that opened a whole new can of worms whereby I had to consider that he is not “just a guy,” but a very deceptive (or deceived) guy. This, in my opinion, is why so few in the group are willing to question John’s behavior, or his obvious concealment and dissembling around it, AT ALL: because it is a ball of twine that, once you pick at the first thread, will come totally unraveled, forever.


No one can ever be right about another person when it comes to casting judgment on them. That’s why facts are so important, not to judge but to discern. If people wish to see de Ruiter as “living truth,” that’s fine; but if they are refusing to look at certain facts in order to maintain their belief, that’s not so fine. That’s crazy-making. Based on the evidence, de Ruiter is not what he and Oasis’ PR claims him to be, and a lot of work seems to be going into maintaining that illusion. It doesn’t mean people aren’t receiving positive experiences around him—I know I did. The question is, at what price?

*


John has also talked about (it’s even a long quote at his website) how it is possible for a person to use an awakening in order to become invulnerable and then get “trapped” in an “enlightened ego” identity. This would be very hard for anyone who hadn’t experienced something similar to recognize, and the person in question, by definition, would not be aware of it either. (The trap is in the very certainty of having attained “mastery,” to be fully conscious and free from self-interest, “mastered by Truth”). The danger of a “blind spot” is the fact that we are not aware it is there, and often can’t even entertain the idea it might be, because then we would have to stop everything.


“The deep” is unmapped terrain. Staying in what you know is easier said than done. How hard is it to have a complete knowing about oneself, much less somebody else? Faith, belief, trust, loyalty, commitment, devotion, emulation, worship, love, submission—none of these are the same as knowing. But together they can make a highly convincing alternative to it.


A common experience of people around John is of receiving a blissful dose of energy that is “like a drug.” This was my experience also. However, a bit like drugs, I also noticed on occasion a sort of deflation after the meetings. Did John’s “truth” give me temporary refuge from the pattern-prison of my own wounds? I felt acutely when we left Bristol (in 2010, after my first seminar) that John’s energy was like a “nest” around us, soothing and protective, like a cocoon. I think maybe John offers a kind of psychic pain relief, balm for any psychological wounds which a person is not ready or able to go into. I also realize how “okayness” can be used as the supreme tool of avoidance.


Nests are necessary for a chick to grow in; but until the chick leaves the nest, it will never learn to fly. For me, de Ruiter was like a powerful hallucinogen: useful to see that such states exist within myself, but not to be relied on to “get there” once I’ve found that out. Otherwise, it becomes more about the drug than the experience.


Not that it’s been easy to get clean. I’m still in the process of it. Coming clean here, with my old audience, is maybe the last phase of that process. I am admitting that I was wrong, powerfully deceived and deeply deluded, about John de Ruiter, and probably about everything else too.


If anyone still wants to listen to me after that, God help you!

68 comments:

Anonymous said...

I remember when John and I were camping and I was feeling like all my body heat was leaving through my head and I was becoming hypothermic...when I told John this he put his arm over top top my head and his body heat started to seep into me and I know longer was shivering and expecting to die of heat loss...he (in his sleep) saved my life by covering my head. I think this relates to the meetings he holds....people are losing something and he covers the hole and they fell whole again. Unlike the camping trip when you wake up and it is warm you no longer need his arm when you leave the meeting you are emptying out again and need to go back to be temporarily "saved"...

lawnspeak said...

Looking forward to the book and the local reaction to it...hope john clears his coffee table for it .

Anonymous said...

I think you might find this book an interesting read: Power vs. Force by David R. Hawkins.

Douwe Jan Schrale said...

thank you for sharing this. its your openness and your honesty that makes this worth reading.

( mmm thinks the ego.. so if I am going to be open en honoust they like me more... szzszs systems emulate.. )
dealing with cults/ cultleaders/ etcetra, can be one of the greatest lessons in our path I had my own. called destini..I never went in completely but they effected me becouse I just went trough ayahuasca and that had opent my mind she made me doubt like hell! it took me 5 months to get on my feet again.. but I learned so much in those 5 months. I became more human.. and issnt that what we are looking for ?

love
DJ

maybe later

Anonymous said...

Good for you Jason!
btw I use as my internet a.k.a.
Helios...as a token reminder of that which we explored and learned together.

Jason Horsley said...

'Course this won't stop me from starting a writing workshop....

; )

Irreducible Rascal said...

Maybe it was a projection of the light side of your shadow, your disowned greatness, projected onto John and now taken back or owned, if we are to use this particular map. A natural projection which is potentially very transformative as you said, once made conscious and perhaps a necessary part of the process.
Of course, the dark side of the shadow likes to project all the things we dislike about ourselves onto others... say no more... except that perhaps this is simply my projection onto you.

soule said...

"A common experience of people around John is of receiving a blissful dose of energy that is “like a drug.” This was my experience also. However, a bit like drugs, I also noticed on occasion a sort of deflation after the meetings. Did John’s “truth” give me temporary refuge from the pattern-prison of my own wounds? I felt acutely when we left Bristol (in 2010, after my first seminar) that John’s energy was like a “nest” around us, soothing and protective, like a cocoon. I think maybe John offers a kind of psychic pain relief, balm for any psychological wounds which a person is not ready or able to go into. I also realize how “okayness” can be used as the supreme tool of avoidance."

I experienced this so vividly alone in a hotel room one night. I was wrestling with thoughts, couldn't sleep, and put on one of John's recordings and I was out like a light within 15 minutes.

JSteveKane said...

I think this phenomena with guru's masters enlightened teachers is quite common and all too often people dismmiss the guru as a fraud with nothing to offer,this clearly isn't the case, but as you rightly point out discernment by the student and an ability to not become attached is vital but easier said then done, the point you make about genuine "enlightened" people becoming trapped in a new delusion is interesting and perhaps also about there attachment to a new "enlightened identity", I respect you for you honesty

thisusernameisunavailable said...

I am struck by a memory of you describing your encounter with John in the lavatory and how it resonated with real connection; how much sense this makes now: that you caught him in possibly the only mode in which he had no choice but to be just another ordinary human: going to the loo..
Ashley

Douwe Jan Schrale said...

the pil in the matrix..

you swallow someone else his ideas toughts..
what ever you do red or blue.
both are unreal. as they are not you.

the guy is giving you a choise he is the guru. the man looking for the one.. He thinks he found it but is wrong..the one .. is never outside of him.. outside of you me.. the one is everyone. red or blue its up to you.. but why not jellow purple green.

the collor of your choise? he makes you swallow.. and neo will never be free.

GEO said...

I don't blame you for wantong someone to come and save you from all of your pain and suffering. It is like a natural tendency when you are walking this arduous path.

Anonymous said...

very interesting! about the blind spots: as you say, we can't 'see' them by definition. but if we are sufficiently open to the world, we can perhaps gradually become more aware of them through other manifestations that they inevitably entail, through 'how we feel', as you say: tension, disbalance, intuition.
well done on your first pop song too!
love sofi xx

Jason Horsley said...

it's helpful to hear all your comments; i never imagined I would take a guru, never realized i was looking for that until I found it.

In the midst of my intoxication, I talked about how we NEED an external model of truth to match it, because otherwise how can we know how to be? It seems now that I was speaking truly but from a fragment of myself that NEEDED that father embodiment, and got it, only to find that really, i was bringing from within myself. At that point the external model (really a mirror) became expendable.

It's a poor student that doesn't surpass the master: the main error of guru-followers I think is the idea that a guru is for life.

pueokeokeo said...

gurus

gooey ruse

a sticky subterfuge

good to know you got unstuck JK and it was especially good to be alongside of your unsticking process

hearts

pukey

Douwe Jan Schrale said...

thinking about interviewing you.
your experience is of great value for many people.. Il talk with the people of freedom central if they want to do it.

know you are always welcome in the Netherlands.

Jason Horsley said...

JDR was just in Holland!

Jason Horsley said...

This post was culled from the many posts I made a Birds of Being, the google group for Oasis community. The thread I started there kept going for almost two weeks before it was finally shut down today. There was no reason given, besides that the subject was "exhausted"; most of my questions and comments went unanswered, tho several people there expressed interest and support (the majority assumed I needed "help" being drawn back into the fold).

Finally a guy named "Baba" (one of the early players in JDR's rise to power) made an aggressive post whereupon the moderator, Norman, announced that the thread was done and anyone who posted there would be moderated thereafter.

I posted a goodbye post and received an email right away from Norman saying I would be moderated from now on.

Here's baba's first complaining post and my final one:

Dear BOB Managers
I know that Norman had said not too long ago that certain thread had run its course, but I see that some individuals want to keep talking about their issues endlessly.

I purpose that contributors who really don't have a whole lot to contribute should get a warning and/or be blocked.
It is getting fucking tiresome!
Baba

...

I think I got what i came for, personally, which was to discover
whether the group was open to a sincere discussion about John, Truth, belief, doubt, knowing, etc.

It seems that, although some members of the group are open, the word from on high is No.

Despite my suspicions about the cult nature of Oasis, I am frankly
astounded that bullying behavior like Baba's rules the roost. It's
sad, because while part of me wanted to have my suspicions confirmed, I really was hoping I was wrong.

I have taken some of my comments outside of the context of this forum, and the response has been unanimous that my arguments were balanced, lucid and illuminating. No one has once suggested that I am "bitching" or indulging in my "issues" - they recognize only an open and honest exploration of the unknown terrain of guru-following and my own struggle to make it through that terrain. Yet here I am perceived only as an annoyance or a threat.

I think some of the people here have benefited from this discussion, but that they will go along with Baba and Norman's decree out of a desire not to rock the boat and to avoid any unpleasantness. However, my experience is (and will go on record as being) that I was forced
into silence because certain people did not like what I had to say. I very much doubt that any outside observer will see it any differently.

I also very much doubt that John would appreciate being represented in such a way. If my voice was really irrelevant, there would be no need to silence it, because no one would be listening.

The truth that has to be defended is no truth at all.

JSteveKane said...

"It's a poor student that doesn't surpass the master: the main error of guru-followers I think is the idea that a guru is for life."

My Kungfu teacher says excactly this and that a guru should aim for at least some of his students to surpass him, as ultimately the idea of having a master is to eventually become your own master. At that point a master is no longer needed (except to avoid the delusinal trap ) but you take on your own students to continue learning

Douwe Jan Schrale said...

do not be afraid. he wont be anywhere near me (:

Eos said...

"If you meet the Buddha, kill him." -Linji Yixuan

"Doubt will set ye free..."

I like that! Or do I...?

Welcome back to the road, warrior.

Move! Move! Move!

E.O.S. said...

"If my voice was really irrelevant, there would be no need to silence it, because no one would be listening."

If only more people understood that, in many more areas...

Jason Horsley said...

hey Eos, welcome back yourself!

To my mild surprise, no one at BoB has expressed any concern over my being censored. It's not really surprising, i guess; it's difficult if not impossible to see corruption from the inside, because we unconsciously match that "way" in order to fit in

It's akin to being in a family where there is a consensus agreement to keep certain unpleasant facts from being acknowledged. Again, speaking from experience...

There is not a shred of DOUBT in my mind that Oasis is in the business of thought control - i know it, because I just got controlled (aka "moderated"). Norman did not even deign to give a real reason for it.

What i don't know is if that corruption comes from the very top or not, which is why I want to speak to John about it.

Is John attracting undiscerning/unintelligent people, or are they becoming this way as part of the "process"? Judging by my own case, the latter seems to be the case. I was never so undiscerning as when I believed in John.

Interesting how the intellect is constantly being framed as untrustworthy at Oasis, over and above other things such as emotional convictions called "knowings." From what I have been able to glean about John's past, he was never intellectually developed. I wonder if this is part of why it has become "the enemy" for Oasites?

Mars said...

I’m glad to see the spell has broken.

Welcome back to nothing.

Doubt will set you free? I doubt it.

Only death will Set you free.

Jason Horsley said...

I wonder which Mars that was?

My guess is the original one.

Douwe Jan Schrale said...

was there any use of mantras? so yes would you mind sharing them?

you know its not about inteligence. we in general as a human race are pretty stupid/blind . and most people do not fall for things like this because they keep there minds closed by there safety systems.religion, education, etcetra. maybe thats what this is all about.. self preservation. it keeps them safe from wolfs and alike.. but also stupid.. so if you going to step out the window.. you are the brave one and the smart one ( one eye).. but ones you did that where do you need to go? you can not go back.. carbon boxes does not fit you anymore.. so there are new boxes made ready for you bigger boxes.leaders sects gurus..and before you know it the ego go's there..safe. in the web of a spider that drains your energy..

and just as the first box people will not believe there is more out there.. these people will do anything to keep you in this box.. and when you got out they will do anything to protect the others from the dangers out there.

before you went away I sometimes looked on your page.. tought it was intresting but I was not jet ready now you returned from the underworld. I understand you .

Douwe Jan Schrale said...

so we are box hopping.
and every box has its own laws and own ideas and might or not be bigger.
another simulation and another one.. what does this moment tell us? what does these people learn me?

Eos said...

"Is John attracting undiscerning/unintelligent people, or are they becoming this way as part of the "process"?"

From my experience growing up in a bhakti tradition, I'd say it's a combination of both. Both collectively and within each individual, including the 'guru'. Circles in circles in circles...

It all reminds me of cumulonimbus clouds, the myriad forms that reveal themselves in those amorphous gatherings of condensed water vapor and ice crystals, and the lightning coiled deep within, ready to lash out if the clouds go supercell and the weather gets stormy.

(I've been doing time-lapse photography lately.)

Like the story that anon shared about the camping trip... My uncle, who was Muslim, told me at a very early age that most heat escapes from your body through the top of your head and the soles of your feet. It made sense to me because I knew yogis could force their souls through the tops of their heads, and that the bottoms of a pure devotee's feet were holy and transmitted karma. Now, if I'm cold, I put on a hat and two pairs of socks and I get warm. I didn't become a Muslim, however, nor do I consider my uncle a guru, and his advice has probably saved my life countless times...

I am the Great One who makes the grass green.

John M said...

Good to see you posting again Jason, somehow I didn't think that you'd be waylaid by any one belief system for too long.

Douwe Jan Schrale said...

maybe the second box is harder to escape from.. as these are people that already escaped the first box.. and think they are there.. they are the ones that took the first step.. rather than the ones that never took a step and will try to stay away from you to conserve there reality.. second box people will say that they understand you.. that they went trough the same.. and you will feel confertable.. not alone anymore.. as the proces from box one to box two was very lonely.

Jason Horsley said...

i think my interest in the notion of second matrix was an example of an unconscious awareness trying to make it into consciousness; someone did suggest JDR was the third matrix once (seeing through a cubed eye)...

instead i focused on big picture and so reassured myself that I was too smart to fall for the old "second matrix" ploy!

live and learn

saintbryan said...

This conversation is starting to remind me of your idea of stop-over matrices from your Matrix Warrior book. Maybe John is trying to build a rehab matrix.

Jason Horsley said...

I had roughly the same thought recently.

Douwe Jan Schrale said...

what are the stop matrices?

want to know? how to get out?
its like a mental chinese finger trap.

I want to be ... you dont know what it is you want to be.. I do,. I want to be free. you have no Idea what that means... yes but I want it I want it I want it.. give it to me... noo.. Yes.. nooo.. . never.. but.. Listen to me as long as you want to be free you never will be free..

just be..

but what does that mean?..
you see you never will be free..

Manuel said...

I know nothing.

Jason Horsley said...

yesterday's thought:

i would say doubting JDR's (or anyone's)teachings is as essential to exploring and embodying them as it is to leaving them behind, because without a capacity to doubt there is no possible way to run them by one's own sense of truth, or what is real

in the end the absence of doubt around John is what banished all my own doubts about the teachings being harmful or in some way "untrue" - at least to those who take them straight

irony abounds

pueokeokeo said...

I don't doubt.

I forget.

:(

It's cool , though.

lawnspeak said...

It does seem like a mind rehab..bless the ones who are alone and feel a need for urban companionship..a gathering of followers..entrants to a larger oasis. So be it a little ticket..doesn,t the troubled soul always run into debts anyway.

Mind Games are not mantras

John has the opportunity to develop his technique of deliverance and attraction with intergalactic trance.

The sessions which they are require a manual. The manual is from outside and is what we bring to that session . If we are lucky we may find or share to another this secret knowledge during a session.
With healing events or even the mildest corporate events the invites are from the outside and the internal.
JDR is a channel. Just a channel like others who exist in existence. We can enlighten John himself or be reminded on other members, followers qualities that we all bring to the lecture.
We bring in egos. We bring in excitement. We bring in panic. We bring in debt. We bring in flowers.
We are all under someone's wing other or as well as JDR. JDR is a temporary comfort to all, and yes it comes with a price but one can contain the information within afterwards or if clever even before.
It is these places that act as a little day trip from the mainstream, a little picnic from our own prioritized worlds and enchantments and enactments.
Not being able to draw a conclusion I leave everyone politely with a slight confusion. Dd r OR NO dD r E

Jason Horsley said...

the master who makes the grass green just spoke!

Anonymous said...

The Self is the only True Devotee. --- Ramana Maharshi

*

A good disciple doesn't learn anything, because then he stays longer. --- Karl Renz

at 4:50min

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr3iBWMfvNg

Douwe Jan Schrale said...

So Jason.

what are you going to do now?

Jason Horsley said...

I am waiting for a sign

Praise Mayonnaise said...

produce it please

Douwe Jan Schrale said...

If I was you.. I would go in to the woods. camp there alone..
take some decent psychedelics with you and repeat this proces several times
ask them. whats going on instead of listening to humans.

humans tend not to know.

Jason Horsley said...

psychedelics mess you up, so I definitely won't be following that advice

tho the forest bit sounds okay

SED said...

Come now, One needs only to make life novelty or virgin for Him (the serpent, the lord) again, by and by you'll be recouping mana points, dying hardcore (from sin (knowledge of anything other than)) becoming God becoming.

Christ! (The serpent king, what else), I can't partake of much of anything without having to relieve myself these days, this is demented I know ha! It means I am close, or closed, take your pick. It's my present darkness.

Douwe Jan Schrale said...

they did not mesh me up, but it matters who you ask . hihi.
for me they safed my life. learned me many things. before I did ayahuasca I could physical not make love with anywoman if I came close my balls started to hurt like some one kicked them.. ayahuasca gave me back my manhood., also gave me the philosopher stone after a very long strugle with the black snake

LSD learned me about my creative possebilities.. about what its like to be a god. the black widdow came but my friends and my girl kept me warm in the rain outside in the forest.

hawayan baby woodrose opend the earth gate for me.
I learned how they hate the earth how they made her in to satan. her innerworkings. everything that does not have the will to live will get smaller and smaller and just behave like insects. and at the end die
she will give you everything you need.. the earth. but if you are going to rotten things with it.. you will be part of the rot. (and allot more but I might tell you that later)

I chose life came out of the pit. ( full of ants, dead leave dead wood and beautiful trees ( like a desert) and build a small camp on top of the hill. my girl came later that night and we slept together in the hut.

thats why I say you should go in to the forest take some psychedelics.follow your instincts. they are gifts from the earth yes gifts from satan..the destroyer of all things the giver of life..

first they made her evil then they made her male.

so tell me am I messed up?

Douwe Jan Schrale said...

but ofcours there are more ways of getting in a trance state. :)

Jason Horsley said...

you're messed up

; )

Douwe Jan Schrale said...

define messed up? :)

Douwe Jan Schrale said...

;) you are messed up too..

hihihi..!
most of the people here are messed up.. creazy bunch of misfits.. haning around on an internet page about a wonderful person that went trough an experience we all feel kind of related too.. say good bye to the daddy in the sky.. we are now wise and brave enough to be adults. no more fear of jupiterian monsibonsi..just god who is in all. us and the earth


if I just insulted anyone please thank me afterwards.. the show must go on

Jason Horsley said...

everyone is messed up by their environment; one thing messed up people do is try and straighten themselves out by creating their own environment and doing psychedelics, which create real experiences through artificial means, ie, without necessarily having 'earned' them (anyone can drop LSD or eat shrooms).

Psychedelics helped make me who I am today. Messed up in all-new ways!

Ive no way of knowing if i'd be better or worse off without those experiences; but my intuition says that out of the few dozen experiences i've had, maybe half a dozen were really helpful/necessary.

Douwe Jan Schrale said...

ayahuasca I think I did to many times. ones a month for a year and

but who knows It took me quite long to find the awnser .. and it was that I only wanted to be with my friends and family... being loved that I did not want to be a shaman nor a magician or a god.. I wanted to be with my girl. thats how I found the stone.. my innersun.

my fireportal I opened with out psychedelics and that might be one of the most interesting experiences of my life and the hardest. but I would say I was very open because of the psychedelics. would not been there with out them.

it is not about earning or not earning. before I was doing ayahuasca I was totally against any psychdelics drugs and nothing in my bones wanted to take them .. but the moment I got the offer I knew I had to.. it felt like the way to go.

everyone can take psychedelics.. not everyone is willing to go in to the forest alone and do them. not everyone is willing to take the extra mile go to an ayahuasca meeting and open your mind. actually most people won't ever.. the challenges oferd by the psychedelics are not easy, especially

meditation is also artificial, and so is being buried in the ground, or starving in the forest on a vision quest.. they are all technical ways..

we are one with the earth we are the development of her conscious brain she gave us the substances the plants the fungi to work with our self. she wants us to grow.,

or does the big men in the sky say you do not deserve the psychedelics? its swimming or drowning.. he must be worried about us..

and I do not know about you but I decided to swim and became pretty good in swimming a
its not about creating your own reality its about loving and living. !

now I think about it.

first time it was the forest that asked me to stay but it was me who slept in the forest for the first time alone. .. it was me who slept in the rain under a tree while the LSD was already gone and had amazing lucid dreams.. it was me who decided to build a camp and wanted to live and then got my girlfriend from the station and returned to the camp..

it was me who made fire, learned about fire .. I got help from the psychedelics, I got help from the forest but I did it.. not the psychedelics its me..

wow empowering..! thank you

Anonymous said...

http://rutube.ru/tracks/3871456.html?v=b7fb1a4c3a75a6791a31b5e257f8acd6

See at 28:37

Someone asked me, he asked me, seven or eight years ago there was John de Ruiter was in Tiru the first time 98 or 99, or somewhen I can't remember. So he asked me, "What would you ask Mr. Ruiter if you had a question?" So I gave him a question and he went. I had told him, "Ask Mr. Ruiter if there was ever any master who helped anyone." So he went and the first question in Tiru was [this question]. So he asked this question. Half an hour nothing. He was already gone he said and they told him later the answer started, "Yes, but it depends..." So at least with some questions you can shut up somebody. Some questions are good questions. They even shut up the teacher.

Douwe Jan Schrale said...

after a long walk.. I decided I can do with out.

it feels a bit like standing on my own feet

I will open the air portal.. on my own. with out the use of psychdelics...

this summer I will go out there. and live in the forest..alone. I feel strong.. and able and a bit crazy.

maybe I go to the mountains. hitchhike there..

Anonymous said...

why post an interview and then take it down?

Jason Horsley said...

Aeolus gives and aeolus takes away again. ; )

I had misgivings about putting myself out there again and i wasn't sure it would interest people that much. Seemed presumptuous and too easy return to previous patterns: listen to me!

apologies to CCC whose (non-sequitur) comments all got flushed with it.

Anonymous said...

Plus it was a lousy interview. You can do better, and aught too. A conversation with NK would be most honest and entertaining.

I think you have more interesting things to say now than ever before.

Mars2

Jason Horsley said...

what are you my grade teacher?

do your own podcast, man

Jason Horsley said...

i don't think you're Mars 2 either; Mars 4 more likely...

David Timms said...

For what it's worth, I would certainly listen to any new Podcast you put out. I'm eager to hear what you've got to share after your hiatus. Whatever that might be!

Badger said...

Welcome back!

Badger said...

"Ive no way of knowing if i'd be better or worse off without those experiences"

Everything you have done has gotten you to where you are. Where you are is mutable. Enjoy what is.

"increasingly virginal" said...

IT IS NOT FUNNY ANYMORE
IT'S REAL, HE CRIED OUT
oh AND THE GORGON STIRS
to be sure, to be sure.

Michael O'Neill said...

Jason,

It's wonderful to hear you are listening to the knowing in your heart again and not under the spell of another's knowing. I was thinking about our time together the other day.

I know your apprehension about any type of doing. But your discussion about the only knowing being your own experience spoke to my own sense that these experiences are enriched by doing the work you know in your heart is yours alone to do.

You have showed me how "doing your will" can be the path to delusion. However living the truth in my heart has been a healing experience since our paths diverged. Maybe your coming back to this space is a way for you to revive your own knowing and to live out its call to your personal gifts and skills.

Ma'a Kheru
~may you speak "the word of truth"

Jason Horsley said...

I was just thinking about you today! (Wondering if you were still miffed.)

Michael O'Neill said...

"(Wondering if you were still miffed.)"

No, I've gotten enough distance in time to grock a little bit of how I changed in that time. I've been seeing a lot of synchs in the way I did while I was at SWEDA the past few weeks.

two words first time first time first time said...

Shower head fell flat, almost broke tiling
Man don't know if he's been to Mars or not